KnightWRX
Apr 23, 06:39 PM
I don't know where you get your statement than the "iPhone had a higher resolution than macs"
Resolution is a function of both pixel count and screen size. While there were less pixels on the iPhone screen, it had "higher resolution" in the form of higher DPI ;)
However, the person you are replying to is still wrong. The math behind the "retina" display (as explained here (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/06/10/resolving-the-iphone-resolution/)) is that indeed, 300 PPI is the magic number at the viewing distance you usually hold a phone away from your eye in order for pixels to not be distinguishable.
As such, the older 320x480 iPhones did indeed have quite visible pixels (and yes, I can see the pixels on my 3GS just fine).
Resolution is a function of both pixel count and screen size. While there were less pixels on the iPhone screen, it had "higher resolution" in the form of higher DPI ;)
However, the person you are replying to is still wrong. The math behind the "retina" display (as explained here (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/06/10/resolving-the-iphone-resolution/)) is that indeed, 300 PPI is the magic number at the viewing distance you usually hold a phone away from your eye in order for pixels to not be distinguishable.
As such, the older 320x480 iPhones did indeed have quite visible pixels (and yes, I can see the pixels on my 3GS just fine).
0815
Apr 5, 02:47 PM
Maybe now Apple realizes that they must allow some things on their devices like themes. Or not...
What makes you think this? Because Toyota pulled it after Apple asked them friendly to do so?
What makes you think this? Because Toyota pulled it after Apple asked them friendly to do so?
LondonCentral
Apr 20, 04:39 AM
�499 for a white iPhone 5 and you can count me in, again. I've just sold my iPhone 4.
Now to carry on avoiding all the Verizon/AT&T nonsense on here. :rolleyes:
Now to carry on avoiding all the Verizon/AT&T nonsense on here. :rolleyes:
pmz
Mar 28, 11:48 AM
My problem isn't necessarily with Apple, my grief is with carriers who have tied most of us in to 2 year fixed contracts. Whether this is due to Apple's insistence, or whether carriers have signed up to the 'yearly cycle' idea, there are thousands of us stuck in the middle here.
Any 3GS user who bought new and has a 2 year contract (usually because it was the most economical) now has a huge dilemma. Do we switch phones and get new contracts on different phones, or do we go Pay As You Go to cover those 3/4 (potentially more) months?
Ultimately, if happens, I'll end up going for the new BlackBerry Bold Touch (Dakota), just because I don't want to be strung along for a few months, racking up minutes/text/data costs. It'll be sad, but ultimately, its just a phone I guess...
NB: ALL OF THE ABOVE IS PREFACED BY AN 'IF THE RUMOUR HAPPENS'!
I don't see how anyone has a huge dilemma. If you're saying those that bought a 3GS on launch, didn't upgrade last year, and now are at the end of a 2 year have a "problem", that doesn't sound like much of a problem to me.
Call up AT&T and say your contract is up, you'd like to renew and buy a new iPhone which you qualify for, but you're not buying a new iPhone until iPhone 5 comes out. If they don't allow you a grace period until iPhone 5 is available, tell them you're gone, and that Verizon seems like a good option since AT&T doesn't want you for another 2 years.
The difference between public policy and what they can/will do for you when you're "threatening" to switch, is very different. The only time you have any leverage to get something you want out of AT&T is a once every two years opportunity when you're contract is up and you have the option of switching.
Any 3GS user who bought new and has a 2 year contract (usually because it was the most economical) now has a huge dilemma. Do we switch phones and get new contracts on different phones, or do we go Pay As You Go to cover those 3/4 (potentially more) months?
Ultimately, if happens, I'll end up going for the new BlackBerry Bold Touch (Dakota), just because I don't want to be strung along for a few months, racking up minutes/text/data costs. It'll be sad, but ultimately, its just a phone I guess...
NB: ALL OF THE ABOVE IS PREFACED BY AN 'IF THE RUMOUR HAPPENS'!
I don't see how anyone has a huge dilemma. If you're saying those that bought a 3GS on launch, didn't upgrade last year, and now are at the end of a 2 year have a "problem", that doesn't sound like much of a problem to me.
Call up AT&T and say your contract is up, you'd like to renew and buy a new iPhone which you qualify for, but you're not buying a new iPhone until iPhone 5 comes out. If they don't allow you a grace period until iPhone 5 is available, tell them you're gone, and that Verizon seems like a good option since AT&T doesn't want you for another 2 years.
The difference between public policy and what they can/will do for you when you're "threatening" to switch, is very different. The only time you have any leverage to get something you want out of AT&T is a once every two years opportunity when you're contract is up and you have the option of switching.
peeInMyPantz
Aug 4, 06:14 AM
I think the very last machine to get it will be the bottom end MacBook and slowest Mac Mini. There is no reason why they could not offer both Yonah and Merom in the same systems since they are the same sockets. With the discounted Yonah or Core Solo they could hit there $499 price point on the mini and $899 for the Core Duo white MacBook. The Black MacBook will see Merom near the same time as MBP. They may wait 3 weaks or so to see if the Merom supply can meet demand.
I don't think price for MB will ever drop, even if they're staying with yonah. It's selling quite well at this price. If they offer yonah and merom in the same system, the price diff will not be a lot, and apple will end up stocking for both yonah and merom, which is not something they will do
I'm gonna go on record and say they will NOT intro new MBP at wwdc. Some sales of the current MBP are better than none and if they they intro a new one they will not sell any and probably just take pre orders. Not gonna happen. They will wait until late August or early September to announce them when they are actually ready.
sales are going to drop anyway, coz ppl are going to wait. It's just like last year before intel processor come into the picture, there's a drop in sales coz ppl are waiting..
That banner is showing Apple's existing products, not future products. The 64 bit logo is no doubt referring to the current line of G5 machines.
Chris
maybe it's about leopard
.. don't u just love speculation.. haha
I don't think price for MB will ever drop, even if they're staying with yonah. It's selling quite well at this price. If they offer yonah and merom in the same system, the price diff will not be a lot, and apple will end up stocking for both yonah and merom, which is not something they will do
I'm gonna go on record and say they will NOT intro new MBP at wwdc. Some sales of the current MBP are better than none and if they they intro a new one they will not sell any and probably just take pre orders. Not gonna happen. They will wait until late August or early September to announce them when they are actually ready.
sales are going to drop anyway, coz ppl are going to wait. It's just like last year before intel processor come into the picture, there's a drop in sales coz ppl are waiting..
That banner is showing Apple's existing products, not future products. The 64 bit logo is no doubt referring to the current line of G5 machines.
Chris
maybe it's about leopard
.. don't u just love speculation.. haha
ArtOfWarfare
Mar 26, 10:59 PM
You do realize you don't have to renew the contract right? AT&T will be more than happy to keep taking your money until such time as you feel ready to sign a new one.
How about something more along the lines of "New iPhone 5 when it's released if you agree to pay our fees for another two years"?
I guess I'm not exactly in any position to negotiate like that...
So they'll keep charging the same rates after the contract ends? And I can keep my unlimited 3G for $30 a month?
How about something more along the lines of "New iPhone 5 when it's released if you agree to pay our fees for another two years"?
I guess I'm not exactly in any position to negotiate like that...
So they'll keep charging the same rates after the contract ends? And I can keep my unlimited 3G for $30 a month?
l008com
Jul 29, 08:55 PM
I read somehwere that the iPhone has been ready to go for a while, the problem is all the greedy scum bag cell providers want to get paid $1 every time a customer puts a song on their phone, where as apple wants people to load up their phone for free just like they do with an iPod. Without the providers on board, you won't get [Retail $350, with 2 Year Plan $50] for the phone, you'll just get [Price $350].
Anyway I'm on verizon and its been nothing but problems with them for the past year or so. Their 'can you hear me now' network has turned into the 'what? hello? HELLO? *click*' network. I'll be happy to switch if the new phone is not on verizon.
Anyway I'm on verizon and its been nothing but problems with them for the past year or so. Their 'can you hear me now' network has turned into the 'what? hello? HELLO? *click*' network. I'll be happy to switch if the new phone is not on verizon.
hyperpasta
Aug 2, 10:58 AM
I like this guy. He's being reasonable. However, I'd bet that Apple does NOT update any other Macs to Core 2. Yet. Save that for Expo Paris.
You see, Apple always wants to make sure that everyone knows exactly what's in the spotlight at any given time. Right now it's the MacBook and Wireless Mighty Mouse. Before that it was the Mac mini and the iPod Hi-Fi. Before that, the MacBook Pro and iMac. Before that, the iPod nano/video.
Apple isn't going to all of a sudden roll out an OS preview, three new computers, and a new iPod.
EDIT: And oh yeah. Apple is also not going to roll out two iPods and a phone for the holiday season. I have my money on MWSF for the phone.
You see, Apple always wants to make sure that everyone knows exactly what's in the spotlight at any given time. Right now it's the MacBook and Wireless Mighty Mouse. Before that it was the Mac mini and the iPod Hi-Fi. Before that, the MacBook Pro and iMac. Before that, the iPod nano/video.
Apple isn't going to all of a sudden roll out an OS preview, three new computers, and a new iPod.
EDIT: And oh yeah. Apple is also not going to roll out two iPods and a phone for the holiday season. I have my money on MWSF for the phone.
moet_01
Aug 12, 05:31 PM
The promo has nothing to do with new launches...they are completely independent and serve a public that is not interested nor in need of a cutting-edge notebook. The combo MB x iPod is wonderful for most, and it will be attractive even if the Merom notes are in the market.
Right and they will be updated when there ready. The updated Books will not be a qualifying Mac for the Free iPod.
Right and they will be updated when there ready. The updated Books will not be a qualifying Mac for the Free iPod.
timmillwood
Sep 11, 01:33 PM
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tuaw.com/media/2006/09/sept12pic.jpg
FAKE?
FAKE?
dj2mc
Nov 28, 02:23 AM
what do you mean by dual boot?
You mentioned Boot Camp, so I assume you run Windows on the partition? That's what I mean by dual boot, 2 OS's on one hard disk.
You mentioned Boot Camp, so I assume you run Windows on the partition? That's what I mean by dual boot, 2 OS's on one hard disk.
-aggie-
May 5, 07:37 AM
BTW, searching a room disarms traps, so we should get to a point where our last move is search instead of move, if I understand the rules.
cooltop
Jan 28, 05:39 PM
I purchased the TOMTOM app early on and paid $99 for it. One week later, I found it posted in the App Store for $49.99 and today, a couple of weeks after that, the price is $59.99. I have searched the App Store site, iTunes Store AND the Apple site and do not understand how to find a Customer Service Link to ask about a refund for the difference in price. Does anyone know how to reach Customer Service for the APP Store? Thanks in advance...
MrCrowbar
Nov 23, 11:40 AM
You own Apple do you? My! You've kept a very low profile!
OMG STEVE IS HERE!!!
Besides that he probably is, good one geese. :p
OMG STEVE IS HERE!!!
Besides that he probably is, good one geese. :p
dernhelm
Aug 4, 10:48 AM
Hmmm...is Apple going to be changing to new chips every six months now? Nice to see technology moving along at a rapid pace, but for those people who always need the latest and greatest...This is gonna get REAL expensive!:p
How many people plan to dump their Core Duo Macs for Core 2 Duo Macs? I like my iMac and it really is fast, heck my iMac G5 was plenty fast, but I hate being behind everyone when new things come out and it gets too expensive to keep up with Apple...well not in the PowerPC days...but now it does!
You are the perfect consumer. "Must ... have ... bright ... shiny ... new .... thing", whether you need it or not. So what if apple comes out with a new computer every 6 months? If the one you have does what you need it to - why do you care? If your self-worth is tied up in having the latest computer, you just need therapy. And please don't blame Apple for your debt situation.
How many people plan to dump their Core Duo Macs for Core 2 Duo Macs? I like my iMac and it really is fast, heck my iMac G5 was plenty fast, but I hate being behind everyone when new things come out and it gets too expensive to keep up with Apple...well not in the PowerPC days...but now it does!
You are the perfect consumer. "Must ... have ... bright ... shiny ... new .... thing", whether you need it or not. So what if apple comes out with a new computer every 6 months? If the one you have does what you need it to - why do you care? If your self-worth is tied up in having the latest computer, you just need therapy. And please don't blame Apple for your debt situation.
ciTiger
May 6, 07:50 AM
Of course they will move to ARM, everyone will. Google is allready running their data centres on ARM based servers, Windows 8 will run on ARM as well, Apple is investing huge amount of money into their A4, A5 chips. The main problem of computers nowadays is power efficiency and not computing power, because most of the computers allready are overpowerd for what their users usually do with them.
Quite true... Most but not all... And Apple prizes themselves on having a "professional" line. So some products would have to remain out, but Apple usually likes to stick to one thing...
But I really think we are still a few years away from it...
Quite true... Most but not all... And Apple prizes themselves on having a "professional" line. So some products would have to remain out, but Apple usually likes to stick to one thing...
But I really think we are still a few years away from it...
ptaylor874
Nov 3, 10:11 AM
DOH - Not sure how this double posted - I wrote it and after submitting it I had to sign back in. Looks like my session timed out...
SirHaakon
Mar 30, 12:25 AM
I really do like the concept of having an enormous amount of online storage, immediately accessible from anywhere.. but ultimately I see this as an issue of me having to pay someone else for granting access to things I already own.
So that storage unit you have filled with couches and tennis rackets and old baseball cards... that should be free as well?
Let's be reasonable here. They have to buy drives (multiple drives, because clearly they need redundancy and backup) to put your music on and they have to pay for the bandwidth to pipe it out to you. I hardly think $1 for 20 gigabytes of available anywhere storage is very unreasonable.
Do you like paying a fee to your bank when you take out YOUR OWN MONEY from the bank?
No, of course not... but that's different. They aren't storing physical cash somewhere anymore, it's all just a line of electronic code that states what your balance is. Why should anyone have to pay for that? And before you tell me that digital music is just 1s and 0s too, you're right - and that's why Amazon gives you 5 gigs free. If you want more, obviously there's a cost involved. They can't support millions of customers each wanting a terabyte of storage for nothing.
Remember when television was free? We just had to put up with advertisements, and for that, we got free TV. Now many people pay 79 bucks a month or more to get cable or satellite TV.
Nothing has changed. Over-the-air broadcasts are still available for free. It's called an antenna. They may seem quaint, but Best Buy still sells them. If you want premium content, you pay for it.
Of course companies like Amazon and Apple are not in it for your convenience, they're in it because if everyone eventually has all their files stored online in the cloud, there's TONS and TONS of money to be made- for ever. If I have a computer, phone or music listening device with ample amounts of storage space, these companies don't make any money off of me after I purchase that music from itunes or wherever. (And if I have cds or blu ray movies, they don't make any money on me at all). This cloud concept provides some convenience, but more importantly guarantees a steady flow of income for these companies for many years to come.
Well first of all, if you buy a Blu-ray disc from Amazon, they're still taking their cut. So saying they make "no money at all" from that is inaccurate. But again, they are offering you physical storage space that is available 24/7 from wherever you are. Why would you expect that to be free? That's just a ridiculous mentality. The prices they're asking aren't very expensive, either. How much do you spend on your cable bill every month? Your phone bill? People just think it's ridiculous to spend money on music because avenues have popped up where you can get it for free. (Why buy the CD when I can just watch it on YouTube?). Just because something is available somewhere for free doesn't mean it's worthless. Amazon is providing a service. That service comes with a fee. If you don't think it's worth it, don't buy it... but I think your expectations are pretty misplaced.
Flash memory storage capacities are growing yearly.. and prices are continuing to drop. Now companies are starting to ship secure digital cards with capacities of a staggering 128 GB on a tiny compact flash card! Ultimately I think most people will be able to have enormous amounts of files locally on their own phone or portable computer.
Sure they can. That isn't the point of this, though. I have 2 computers at home, a laptop, a phone that has storage, a DVR, even my Xbox can store music files. But what a pain in the ass it is to share between them all. Do I want to use up 80 gigs of my laptop's internal drive just to take all of my music with me when I travel? Do I want duplicate copies of everything I own on all of these different devices just to make sure the one thing I'm looking for at any particular moment is there no matter what? Good grief, no. Yes of course I will keep A backup of all of my files on a local system - I'm not trusting anything ONLY to the cloud - but now there's a way to access my music (or any other kind of file, for that matter) wherever I go, quickly and easily. Sure, it's not much different than dropbox except that it's cheaper and less complicated. How nice to be able to visit my parents, or go on vacation, or be at a friend's house, log on to their computer, and have my entire music library instantly available at my fingertips. It makes a lot of sense to me.
So that storage unit you have filled with couches and tennis rackets and old baseball cards... that should be free as well?
Let's be reasonable here. They have to buy drives (multiple drives, because clearly they need redundancy and backup) to put your music on and they have to pay for the bandwidth to pipe it out to you. I hardly think $1 for 20 gigabytes of available anywhere storage is very unreasonable.
Do you like paying a fee to your bank when you take out YOUR OWN MONEY from the bank?
No, of course not... but that's different. They aren't storing physical cash somewhere anymore, it's all just a line of electronic code that states what your balance is. Why should anyone have to pay for that? And before you tell me that digital music is just 1s and 0s too, you're right - and that's why Amazon gives you 5 gigs free. If you want more, obviously there's a cost involved. They can't support millions of customers each wanting a terabyte of storage for nothing.
Remember when television was free? We just had to put up with advertisements, and for that, we got free TV. Now many people pay 79 bucks a month or more to get cable or satellite TV.
Nothing has changed. Over-the-air broadcasts are still available for free. It's called an antenna. They may seem quaint, but Best Buy still sells them. If you want premium content, you pay for it.
Of course companies like Amazon and Apple are not in it for your convenience, they're in it because if everyone eventually has all their files stored online in the cloud, there's TONS and TONS of money to be made- for ever. If I have a computer, phone or music listening device with ample amounts of storage space, these companies don't make any money off of me after I purchase that music from itunes or wherever. (And if I have cds or blu ray movies, they don't make any money on me at all). This cloud concept provides some convenience, but more importantly guarantees a steady flow of income for these companies for many years to come.
Well first of all, if you buy a Blu-ray disc from Amazon, they're still taking their cut. So saying they make "no money at all" from that is inaccurate. But again, they are offering you physical storage space that is available 24/7 from wherever you are. Why would you expect that to be free? That's just a ridiculous mentality. The prices they're asking aren't very expensive, either. How much do you spend on your cable bill every month? Your phone bill? People just think it's ridiculous to spend money on music because avenues have popped up where you can get it for free. (Why buy the CD when I can just watch it on YouTube?). Just because something is available somewhere for free doesn't mean it's worthless. Amazon is providing a service. That service comes with a fee. If you don't think it's worth it, don't buy it... but I think your expectations are pretty misplaced.
Flash memory storage capacities are growing yearly.. and prices are continuing to drop. Now companies are starting to ship secure digital cards with capacities of a staggering 128 GB on a tiny compact flash card! Ultimately I think most people will be able to have enormous amounts of files locally on their own phone or portable computer.
Sure they can. That isn't the point of this, though. I have 2 computers at home, a laptop, a phone that has storage, a DVR, even my Xbox can store music files. But what a pain in the ass it is to share between them all. Do I want to use up 80 gigs of my laptop's internal drive just to take all of my music with me when I travel? Do I want duplicate copies of everything I own on all of these different devices just to make sure the one thing I'm looking for at any particular moment is there no matter what? Good grief, no. Yes of course I will keep A backup of all of my files on a local system - I'm not trusting anything ONLY to the cloud - but now there's a way to access my music (or any other kind of file, for that matter) wherever I go, quickly and easily. Sure, it's not much different than dropbox except that it's cheaper and less complicated. How nice to be able to visit my parents, or go on vacation, or be at a friend's house, log on to their computer, and have my entire music library instantly available at my fingertips. It makes a lot of sense to me.
badcrumble
Mar 30, 08:10 PM
The new iCal is hideous. This "metaphor" crap is awful, and reeks of Mac OS 9. Make things look sleek and modern like the new Mail app, please.
rdrr
Sep 15, 06:32 PM
One other feature I would like to see in MBP would be an embedded evdo chip. That most likely won't happen but would be really nice.
ten-oak-druid
Mar 29, 05:30 PM
I think amazon and the kindle are the only legitimate competitors to the ipad/itunes store. And I don't know if they are really direct competitors.
Anyway, amazon's kindle and overall user experience are not direct rip offs of Apple and that is refreshing.
Anyway, amazon's kindle and overall user experience are not direct rip offs of Apple and that is refreshing.
Chris Bangle
Sep 11, 12:58 PM
Ok Ok, I was trying to be sarcastic but it didnt work... More mportantly amazon UK shipping all Macbooks in 1-2 weeks and apple uk shipping in a week....... I sense an update.
P.S I dont deserve to be here if i didnt know what Apple Expo is.
P.S I dont deserve to be here if i didnt know what Apple Expo is.
glitch44
Aug 11, 09:57 AM
question: are the CPUs in the macbook socketed or soldered?
could i buy my own Core 2 Duo chip and drop it in there at a later date?
i don't really care about the mhz increase, but the Core 2 Duo line does seem to be a little cooler at idle...
could i buy my own Core 2 Duo chip and drop it in there at a later date?
i don't really care about the mhz increase, but the Core 2 Duo line does seem to be a little cooler at idle...
MikeTheC
Nov 25, 08:56 PM
Other than confusing everyone with too many options, no.
If you're a teenage girl, your phone has to have a camera on it, meaning you'll have to go to Apple.com to custom-order it. That's complicated.
If you're a hiker, maybe you're going to want a phone with GPS, meaning you'll have to go to Apple.com to custom-order it. That's complicated.
If you're a huge multitasker, you're going to want PDA-functionality, meaning you'll have to go to Apple.com to custom-order it. That's complicated.
Very few people, I feel, will want a bare-bones phone... meaning most will have to go to Apple.com to custom-order it. That's too complicated for most people to do.
So in short, no, I don't think that'll work. Good idea, though. That way you'd get a phone with the features you want without the crap that you don't want. Unfortunately, as far as a particular model of phone goes, it's either all or nothing... and I don't think Apple will want to release 18 different models of phone, each with different capabilities... that's worse than BTO.
-Clive
I agree with you totally on this one, Clive.
The problem with "the masses" out there (especially in the U.S.) is that they are so uneducated, unsophisticated, unsavvy, and generally lazy, that ANY solution that isn't served up to them, lock stock and barrel, on a silver platter, automatically will wind up excluding probably a bit north of 70% of the population, and that might simply be me being a bit generous.
Heck, in this country, people don't even educate themselves enough to know not to put scorchingly-hot coffee between their legs in a fast-food drive-through. And having had five years' experience as tech support at Sony Electronics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_CISC) I can tell you that most people don't know -- and don't want to know -- anything about the devices they use. They've grown up and been raised to simply hand the keys to their lives over to someone else. Otherwise, if they had to actually use their minds and *think* something through, well, they don't have time for all that.
Sorry to rant here a bit, but it's the truth. Heck, I've dealt with that at every retail company I've ever worked at, at least to some extent.
If you're a teenage girl, your phone has to have a camera on it, meaning you'll have to go to Apple.com to custom-order it. That's complicated.
If you're a hiker, maybe you're going to want a phone with GPS, meaning you'll have to go to Apple.com to custom-order it. That's complicated.
If you're a huge multitasker, you're going to want PDA-functionality, meaning you'll have to go to Apple.com to custom-order it. That's complicated.
Very few people, I feel, will want a bare-bones phone... meaning most will have to go to Apple.com to custom-order it. That's too complicated for most people to do.
So in short, no, I don't think that'll work. Good idea, though. That way you'd get a phone with the features you want without the crap that you don't want. Unfortunately, as far as a particular model of phone goes, it's either all or nothing... and I don't think Apple will want to release 18 different models of phone, each with different capabilities... that's worse than BTO.
-Clive
I agree with you totally on this one, Clive.
The problem with "the masses" out there (especially in the U.S.) is that they are so uneducated, unsophisticated, unsavvy, and generally lazy, that ANY solution that isn't served up to them, lock stock and barrel, on a silver platter, automatically will wind up excluding probably a bit north of 70% of the population, and that might simply be me being a bit generous.
Heck, in this country, people don't even educate themselves enough to know not to put scorchingly-hot coffee between their legs in a fast-food drive-through. And having had five years' experience as tech support at Sony Electronics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_CISC) I can tell you that most people don't know -- and don't want to know -- anything about the devices they use. They've grown up and been raised to simply hand the keys to their lives over to someone else. Otherwise, if they had to actually use their minds and *think* something through, well, they don't have time for all that.
Sorry to rant here a bit, but it's the truth. Heck, I've dealt with that at every retail company I've ever worked at, at least to some extent.